Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE
Unapologetically Canadian
Unapologetically Canadian

Episode · 1 year ago

Exploring the power of art with Karen Klucowicz

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week, I interview artist and gallery operator Karen Klucowicz. We spoke about entrepreneurship, the challenges of staying productive, working process and contributing to the local community.  

My name is Tracy Aeo and I am unapologetically Canadian today with with Karen clucko witch witch, which it for me can coth wrecking it. It's CLUCO, which Cugo witch, right. Yeah, okay, and we're talking to her this particular week because she has just opened her artist studio and this is a fabulous opportunity to get to talk to her about her artist run business. You just give a background about who you are and what's been happening and why this is the next step in your entrepreneurial journey, and it is a journey, that's for sure. So let's see. So I started the studio planning about a year ago. It actually was a year ago Tuesday of this week, which I found really interesting, and I started planning it because I was at the point where I needed to do more with other people. And so I've done a few things over the years. Obviously I've done in cherry design, I was in advertising and marketing and fine art has always been in the background for me, but I just aided that it was time to move it forwards. So five years ago I dropped all that other stuff and I did it full time. Sold my house and took the leap. So if you're at a holy too, really was and it was great and it has been great and I've really developed my style and where I'm going with my own art. And one of the things that I've encountered time and again with the art world is trying to get your stuff out there right and also networking with your peers. It's very difficult because, for whatever reason, which which I don't understand, in fine art artists are still very competitive. I think sometimes right, but it's no sense, especially right this kind of world. It's so true. So, like somebody that likes my stuff isn't going to like the next person's and vice versa, and I get that and I much rather talk to them about their processes, their concepts, their ideas, because their creativity fuels everybody else. Yeah, so all working that restaurant thin you know, people will go to an area if there are thirty restaurants on a street much more readily than if there's just one and part of it because there's some fit some people and some fit other people. But sometimes it's just you want diversity. So this time you'll pick that, but next time you'll pick something else, and so so true. It really is a big and learning curve for people to be collaborative. Anyway, I think that's true too. Yes, so basically how the studio arrived was I was debating whether I continued with my fine art and kept trying to get it out there, or would I go and get a nine hundred and twenty five somewhere, which doesn't suit me well, given that I haven't done it in like I don't know how many years. Even in my own business I never do nine hundred and twenty five. It's typically, as you know, I'm sure, when you're working for yourself, you're not actually working for yourself. You're working for many people, right. You actually have like ten bosses on the Gost, sometimes exactly so it's. So I did. I just as I determined what it was I really wanted to do, and for me it's to share art and the power that art has, which is what you know you ultimately, that's where my vision for the company, for the studio, came down to living the power of art.

And so to do that, I thought one are the things I love about it. I love sharing it, I love teaching it, I love talking about it. So and I love working with other artists. So I decided that that's what the studio should be well, and I also do like in terms of the teaching. I do team building. It pense, which has been Pu yeah, it's really cool because corporately it's different than like a paint night that you would go to to paint a sunflower. So in this one what they do is they tell me what message they want to deliver to their team and then we find a painting that works with that and everybody does a piece of that painting and then we put it together and reveal the masterpiece and the Google and effective of the piece for oh my gosh, that's a really fun exercise. And how long does it take? Usually? They're usually usually run them about two to three hours. There's a little introduction, there's a little experimentation and then everybody started to get situated and they paint for like an hour, an hour and a half, and then there's usually a wrap up, like an hour a half hour wrap up, where we put it together, they get the revelation of what it is and then either the company or I will tell them what the objective was and why they're seeing it. So it's been fun for the ones that I've done and I'm hoping to expand that when things he's up a little bit. You know. HMM, now, that's right. Cool. I wonder if you can do that virtually, so like they would actually do the you'd send the material of the head and you would do actual I don't know, I mean these days and things for me, with the way things are going, with this pandemic, because, for the listener, were interviewing where we're actually doing this interview in October two thousand and twenty. I think it's going to play in December, but I'm not sure. And so we're in still in pandemic. And Actually Montreal has just gone into another extended lockdown till November, till November twenty something. Wow, yeah, enter in the red zone. Yeah, it's pretty scary everywhere, I think, right now. So yeah, anyway, but we're talking about entrepreneurial adaption. So yeah, and actually what's interesting is I just participated last weekend in a conversation, like a round table of with some of the artists that are in your latest show, and we're talking about the importance of art in daily life and I thought it was really fascinating conversation and really, really interesting people, lots of people too. Oh yes, yeah, and I think it's great because I think they are recognizing the value of working with other artists and and talking to their peers to see where their arts at and where it's going and, you know, and just to and for me it's been great because I've been exploring their way of working, which is very different than mine. In many ways differ and mine to let me tell you what we're talking about. Their regular routines is like wow, I don't think I'd got anything done with that kind of routine. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, well, so. And also, I started, I actually signed the least and took this face to go for thank you before the pandemic kid, just before then we wouldn't go. That was in what March? Yeah, I signed it in February and I got it in April. Yeah's so it was just, yeah, crazy. So at first I thought that's okay, the first couple of months I can set the space up, I can get the websites done, I get all the marketing materials ready and then I'll be ready and, you know, I can start advertising for other artists to participate, because there's a gallery as well. So I wanted to be able to get that launched by summer and I thought, no problem, right,...

...and here we are, it's October, and I mean I'm grateful that I'm fluid enough to be able to bounce with it a little bit, right. And now my next major challenge is going virtually. So we were just talking about doing the team events virtually and they're definitely is opportunity for that. I also have enough space in this unit that I can do one or two. I can I can probably do up to ten people safely in the space. I wouldn't do that because it would be a little too far spread. But I also love for these other play days, I call them because people think art is like a play day. So rather than take a take a kid to work, it's send a team member to WHO APPL lady. And Yeah, and so they can fin and work with me for like, you know, for five hours, and and at that can bring like lots of team objectives into play, right. So, and that building creativity for that, yeah, exactly, and and looking at new ways to solve things and and coming outside of what their comfort zone is. Right, even even virtually we can do that quite easily. I'm just I'm still I'm not comfortable enough putting it out there virtually yet, but I am working on it. So well, you know, just keep working at it. Right. Okay, so one of the things that I usually like to ask people after we get a sense of where they are, because you have just opened the studio, but in the past five years you've been on this journey as an art as a full time artist. Can you talk a little bit about about that journey? So really, throughout my whole career I have worked in art or in creativity, for sure. So I did in hear design, I did advertising and marketing and I always brought it around to art. So getting to this point just feels like a natural evolution to me and more focused effort. Awesome. That's very cool. And can you talk a little bit about your art, because I've seen it, but people will have seen a couple of pieces because of this tour of your of your studio, but can you talk a little bit about what kinds of work you do? Sure. So my work is all based on a figure. It's just evolved to that area of art and I and various levels of abstraction. I work primarily into series. The first one is about the strength of individuals and the second one is how that strength of facts relationships. Okay, so all of my work is either an individual figure or two figures together, sometimes, if you not as many times, and I tend to focus on communication issues, probably from personal journey, and I try to keep them optimistic and I allow the abstraction to evolve as I paint. So I concept journal, which means I write a little bit and then I sketch a little bit and then I suddenly have a painting. And so when I start to work on the painting itself, I just let the colors and the texture that I'm working with evolve and let the level of abstraction grow from there. I M so that's kind of where my arts at. I keep thinking the series will end, but it certainly hasn't yet. But there's so many areas of communication to delve into and and relationships that I don't know, it would probably be ongoing for all. How long of you?...

How long have you been working in that kind of theme? The first time I worked with it was probably fifteen years ago and when I started working full time, and I've always gone figure drawing. I guess it's just something that I think you have to know because it can give you so many other points of reference for developing art, no matter what form it's in. And so I've always gone for life drawing studios and when I started working full time I just went in that direction and so I it just grew from there. Now, but they're the paint that you use is what kind of paint is it? And you do fairly large paintings to I do. I've done very small ones, like three inch pieces that are real details, and I do my probably my average is like a two thousand and twenty or inches, or like a thirty six, and I do go larger than that for sure. I've done like four feet. I'm Oh, I forgot to show you something I was going to work on in the I'm going to work on and as a little side by, remember at the discussion in the artist Salon we talked about street art and I love okay, so I am going to my next painting on a piece of found plywood and found Plywood, oh good heaven. That's going to be the back room. They're leaning against a wall and that's my next venture. But I know it's going yet, like the concepts for it have already gone to the figures, so it's always going to come back to that, I know. Okay, I guess I have something to say. Yeah, and it's fascinating because so many of your I mean you say their figures, but their figures hidden in abstraction. I mean it's not obviously necessarily a figure when you first look absolutely and they're always nude, which some people find a little disturbing, but I don't know why, because we are born naked. And the other thing that I always try to do an end has evolved as well through my concepts, is the people that are in my pieces are always purple or blue, and to me that color, you know, it's wisdom and also I think it helps bridge gaps in reception for the art in terms of culture and race and identification. So some figures you can't even tell if they're male, female or what they are, you know, right, and I would just getting very popular these days, right, not knowing. So that's cool, probably necessary, right. So I think it's some important for us to be able to identify with as many forms of art as we can, and obviously this is my love. So I want them to rantify well. And what's interesting too, because I've seen I've seen your work over a couple of years now. I remember hearing you talk about because you do this concept painting, you can talk quite extensively about each piece right right, and then I think helps if somebody is concerned, like when, particularly someone who's trying to purchase it, depending on what they how they want to use it, it's quite quite nice for them to get the story behind what it means to you as the artist right and actually the the one thing I love even more than that is when somebody receives the concept directly, like from there their selves, and then I tell them about it and they're like that's my story, or you know, like there was a woman walking down the...

...street the other day and saw my stuff in the window and and not to come in. So I let her in and she was going through the show and she stopped at this little piece that I did recently and it's a mixed media piece that has glass and it's done and oil and on wood, and she just said and she started to cry and I was like, oh no, what's happening? Great, and she was just completely enveloped in the idea of it and I hadn't even talked to her about it. Wow. Yeah, it was just so exciting she had to have it, and so she's very happy with it now. And I love when people receive the concept like that, just being so much, because I try to put it out there so that it can be their story as well. And and the other thing is I think that in these concepts it helps people to realize they're not alone. Yeah, well, and really, so many of your concepts are based on relationship and strength and things that we all can experience. I have experienced right and or in one way or another. Right and or think about them ourselves and think nobody else even thinks about it. Yeah, so it's a fun way of saying so you're going to do street art. That's really fun. Well, you know what, I'm definitely not a street artist. I wish I was, but it's going to be my adaptation of it. So stay tuned. Fabulous. And can you tell one of the things I would can you tell me a little bit about one of your most successful pieces or one of your most successful moments? HMM, so, really and truly I feel that through my career, my most successful element has been to bring art into every one of them. And in terms of being successful, like actually committing to my art full time, which, right to me, is it was very important and, like I said, honestly, there have been a couple of times when people have just responded. So it is such a heartfelt weight to my pieces that I'm just grateful they receive it that way. That's really like. That, to me, is success, right. And so can you give me one of them, one of those moments, and just sort of describe that moment? Okay, so there was a collector that went into another gallery that I was represented by a Niagara called Raven, and she sat with the Director of the gallery for quite some time talking about my work and crying and sharing her story. And the piece that she was relating to was called, sorry, I can't remember it off the top, but it was a piece about two people who who lived apart but together, and so it was talking about their issues with it and then how they surpassed them and how their lives still intertwined. And she said it was her story, which was so interesting because she said she and her husband had lived apart for many years and they determined that they would try to live together and they did that and that piece symbolize that point in their relationship. Wow, that was pretty like wow, you know. So that was a really interesting time. And and then, further to that, which was kind of sad, their relationship did not last and it did not endure the the joint living situation. But there was another piece that I had done at the same show which she really liked as well at the time, but it wasn't really, I guess,...

...in her place. But she has had it in her mind for a couple of years and she called me, or, you know, she sent me a note on facebook and she sent me an attachment of one of my postings and said, is this piece by any chance still available? And it's called released and the reason I did it at the time was because I had just given up on a relationship and but I was okay with it because I was releasing all the negativity from it and I was moving forward and this piece was very spontaneous and gave me that satisfaction of acknowledging it and moving and and so she said she sent me this like a screenshot of this posting and I said I yeah, I actually do, and she said I need it, and so I said okay. So she came actually to this studio and it was in April or May and early, early on. So I had to dig it out in the inventory and know, actually, I it's one piece that I always kept around me because it inspired me to continue to do what I was doing. And so she came to get it and she said, you know, Oh, I know the other the other piece was called commitment, and she said, you know, I bought that piece from Rason and I said Right, okay. So we had a couple of conversations following that purchase my text and so I knew her story and she said, well, it didn't last but I always remembered this piece and now I feel like it. It represents where I'm at right now and I need to have it around me. Like those two me are very there, they're successful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, that's the talk about sharing art in a really intense emotional way. You know, because both of you have. You could you you, you expressed that feeling in such a poignant fashion. She you captured which she was feeling. Right. It's really amazing. How wonderful on the other side, what kinds of how can you talk about a failure and something that didn't work the way that you wanted it too? I can certainly do that from a business standpoint, as I'm sure many entrepreters can at some level or another. Yeah, almost daily, let me tell you. Actually, though, it does apply to my art, because my, I think my biggest failure in business was that I didn't end a business early enough previously one of my previous careers, and and I was left with a lot of debts and relationship breaks that I had really valued, some of which have recovered in some have not. But as it relates to art, I now know when to give up on a piece because sometimes I'm I have no idea of what you're like, Tracy. However, I never read one book at a time. Oh No, no, then another door. I can't look at a time. I'm like I have multiple books going on the go all the time. So okay, so you can relate to this, because that is how I paint. And so when I'm working on something that I don't feel is working and it makes it's probably it's not usually the concept it. I usually get involved with the technique and issues that I feel like I'm having with them, I'll put it away and I don't look at it for an extended period of time and it might be a week, it might be a month, might be two months. But now I know when to give that up. And on the other hand, in business I'm trying to learn that. So I wanted to do it because I don't think I'm a serial entrepreneur, but...

I am definitely an entrepreneur. And so the last time that I was trying to do something, I decided to go about it in a different way after the first failure. So I got a business coach, which I thought was very mature, and then started to plan things. And as I was working this through, I realized after like I get well I and I'm not I don't give up easily, so that it was about two or three years that I was into this. This is after the first big fail and I decided it just just it just wasn't going to take off like I wanted it too. So I actually withdrew from it, which, Ye, so that was a really big thing for me to do, because I hate to give up on something, especially if I'm passionate about it. And so yeah, so I definitely have learned from it as well, you know, which is which I thinkk is great, and then I try to apply the same kind of principle to my art itself. It's interesting because I thought you were going to talk about the difference between planning and going with synchronicity when you started that story and rather than talking about when to give up. But it's a fascinating balance because sometimes when you go back to something it's not the same thing anyway, right. So it's I know that. I think that's a good lesson for all of us to learn. When do you give up? And because sometimes you give up too soon. To write. Because you know, some of the best businesses were things that were passions for people and they never actually in their lifetime. They didn't actually work, but then they worked extraorbaby enormously well after they were dead. Sometimes I wonder if that's the way it's supposed to be. I know, I know well what I mean. The studio may tell us that story right, because hope not. That's usually when you started business in a crisis, then you actually have more success because you tend to be less vibe but less extensive about it. Like you do think slowly. You make sure people like what you're doing before you take the next step. That's an interesting point. Yes, like if you look at a lot of the lot of the companies that still exist as started in the first recession of like in one thousand nine hundred and seven, and you'll see there's certain periods of time. Some of them started in the depression. There's lots of companies that are still around that started in the s. You can see that crasies when you when you usually people who start businesses in crises get more resilience somehow. I think maybe it's the like you. You definitely have to be flexible. Yeah, and and you know, it's all the pivoting that they're talking about right. It's so where I was intending to have one on one sessions with people that are enthusiasts that wanted to come in and learn how to draw the figure and how to paint the figure and and how to express themselves visually. Right now I'm having to, you know, pivot, as they say, to a virtual world to try and get them excited and and feel good about exploring that side of themselves. And so and I want to do it right because I don't want to disappoint either right, yeah, you want it to be a full blown experience, even though your participation is only virtual. You want their participation to be every absolutely, Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, and I'm doing similar things. I mean I'm a writer, so my artist lightly and I'm much more practical type of artists who, in terms of I do nonfictions. I do a lot of journalism and things that are very practical and not at all on well, not at all. They are are any creation is art. But but I've also had to do...

...a little bit of pivoting and start exploring, you know, put creating online experiences instead of in person workshops and things like that, and so and it is thinking about the full all five senses, despite your participation being the virtual part, is actually very difficult and sometimes, you know, I've started to ask them to get props and I'm my next step actually, I'm just considering something. I want to order a special pen so I can send people a pain so that so that it can be so that I can get some of those other senses connected either. Right, yeah, they need to try and bring that experience home, right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, well, and plus, so many of us are working from home to now this is where I have an advantage because I've been working from home since then, since for twenty eight years and right and so. But I realize, actually, I was talking to my daughter recently, working at home takes a certain level of you have to set I have to create all sorts of tricks in order to know that I'm working versus when I'm home. Right, and so I don't do anything but work in my off right. Good. I have a certain routines that keep me. Okay, this is work, this is play, this is you know, this is something that's great, this is like it's really otherwise, you just you, just working all the time. Yeah, you know what's so important, tracy, because so when I was doing into your design, I often had people needing a home offices and they just didn't see why they needed to have that separation until they actually had it, and then they recognize the value. And it's so good for you for doing that. And I was very much the same. I've worked at home for many, many years, and the last time was in a very small space and that was horrible because I ended up having to put things away every night just to sit down. You know, it was a very small space. And so now the studio is also amazing for me because it's separate from my home, right, even though you get to go to work for the first time in a very long time. I know, I keep thinking I'm gonna set myself a routine, but it never happens. You're not a routine kind of girl, not, and so it is problematic sometimes. And but anyway, I'm working on it. And and even though people feel like, you know, if, if, if you're painting Um or if you want to paint and it strikes you at eight o'clock at night, are you going to go to the studio? Well, maybe, and maybe I'm still at the studio right. At least there is that flexibility as well, and the complete separation is a mind rest for me, which is amazing. Right, oh, that's cool. Well, and also it would I'm I'm guessing here at what I should ask you. Doesn't it make your home more of a haven and a peaceful place? Like have you? Have you created a new mood for your home because of this? Hmm, I've actually never thought of it in that way. It's it, I and you know I shouldn't say that because really and truly, it does alleviate some of the stress that is around us. I try not to use that word, and particularly as it applies to myself, just because I think it's a dangerous word. But yeah, I don't use it either. Actually I find it too I don't actually like thinking of it because I think things are this is a good point, because if you say something is stressful, it's somehow means it's bad. Right,...

...and things are not necessarily bad, even if you feel them in an intense emotional way. Agreed. Agreed. So for me, I would think you're right that it does become a haven, because I don't have to think about what might have up in three months from now or as I'm, you know, planning out my next ad campaign. You know, I'm not having to think about that at home, necessarily, right. I mean I do take the others creative side home, though. I have a sketch book constantly with me. I have paints at home, I have canvas at home in case I am inspired and need to really do something right away, or if I just want a day where I am not actually painting in Studio. I will do that right, right, well, and and I mean that would be I mean I have all sorts of notebooks and now I've used my I'm using my phone much. Oh, and as collector of writing, you know is a dangerous because I know I and I because I'm guilty of it. A not guilty, I shouldn't say, but I add I do that as well. And I have had a couple of times where my notes disappear on backups or something and I like, Oh my goodness, I have no idea what I wrote. I actually just did a little blog post the other day of about the studio and about how one works. Right, so I am I'm I like to think that I work in organized chaos. Other Oh, what a wonderful idea. And because I think, because I'm visual, I can I can picture exactly where things are. So even if I have US whole stack of papers beside me, I know which paper it is and where it's at in that pile, and the same with my supplies. So yeah, I'm just like that. But but to the point of notes, I tend to make multiple list so one of my things in the last blog post that I did was just about organizing and how you work and recognizing that it's okay to work, whether you're in a cluttered chaos like I work, or, you know, totally clean desk that has nothing else, in which case I think you need an art experience to loosen up. But but, like, in terms of lists and notes and things, I have to think. All I want to try and think of some way to amalgamate them so that I'm not trying to go through tons of papers and sketch books and what not to find my notes, but I'm just not sure that's going to happen. Well, I've been using every note so you can actually it automatically loves you to search by the word regardless is where it is. So I've and I'm trying to put more material in that, just because it's so easy to search for things. You know, yeah, but it's fascinating. I mean, I'm wondering because, I mean, you're much more creative or have that sort of chaotic type feeling like I have. My death was covered with crap for my best about about the last week and I just cleaned it up yesterday, or know, the day before Tuesday, and it made such a difference to actually being able to work. I was like, because I was because, you get my mind was still in the projects that were on my das all of them, and that was not help. Right, right, but it's it is an interesting way because sometimes, depending on what you're doing, you actually want like the're you'll there's lots of times when I'm working on a project I'll have all of the papers around me in sort of a circle and I need to have them that close because I'm working from one to the other, to the other to the other, and it actually is more organized that way than it would be if they were all in their little files and the door.

Yeah, for sure, and you know that. The other thing is that when I'm really focused on a particular task for a project, then those things disappear in my line of vision anyway. Right, right, okay, I think that happens. And and so that's why I no longer worry about my chaotic mess. I have a niece who's an organizer and she just looks in dismay whenever she sees how I'm working. However, she's very good at putting things in proper places and organizing the things for me, like inventory, like my supplies, and when she does that it's an amazing help to my clettered mass. Yeah, yeah, well, and so what a wonderful resource for you. Oh, yes, I use her at home, I use her at work. She loves the challenge generally. Oh my God, that's actually that's a good question. On our way to the question at the end, do you find, because you were talking about collaborating with other artists, and but I'm one also as a business owner, you probably collaborate with a lot of suppliers like her. Do you find that, since you have the new space, anything is changed with those relationships? So my the type of relationships, I guess, are changing, or the types of businesses that I have relationships with. So, for instance, here in Hamilton, what I want to do is from my art experiences that are in studio, and I think this is also going to go over to the virtual as well. I want to have local items in their hit. So there's a local arts supplier here. I do a date night experience where people can come as a couple or as best friends or whatever to come and create a piece of art that talks about their relationship. Oh my God. So it's so fun. What a grid of yeah, yeah, and so I set it up with flowers from the local market. I'll set it up with a wine from the local vineyards. I want to get chocolates in and like food sources I like and I have to be careful, of course, with, you know, with the restrictions right now, but I am trying to branch out and make those connections. And then I also I am going to have retreats here in the studio, when we can open it up safely, for both art enthusiasts, where you have a full week of art, just art, so you're painting, your drawing, your journaling, you are going to art galleries, you experience the local culture, and I want to do the same with artists. So we'll have keynote speakers in and and those as you I think. Me Recall that I love to travel. And Yeah, and so one of the things that I do every years I go on an artist retreat and and the last time I went to Barbados and I had a couple friends there that are artists and it was wonderful to the show engrossed in your work from like I was there for five weeks doing this and it made me realize the value of how they're having other artists with you while you're doing that kind of thing. And so when we can safely travel. Again, I'm going to organize it for artists so that, as a peer group, we can go to another country and have this retreat and have the local culture, will trade our work, basically, and so erful. What a great yss. So those are the kinds of things that I want to happen for the studio and also that's where my relationships are changing with the communities. Right. So I am I do...

...service all of Ontario and virtually I'll be able to service wherever. But I want, I think Hamilton has a thriving arts community. They have a great vibe in which is what attracted me to Hamilton, and so I want to be able to contribute to that community and the industry overall. They have a great egic direction and so and they've been very welcoming so far, you know. So it's kind of excited. Yeah, that's nice. That's a nice segue to the actually, both of those more comments are a nice segue to the last question in my podcast, which I always ask everyone, which relates to your identity and whether you consider yourself a Canadian and, if so, what does that mean to you? Okay, so I'm definitely Canadian. I'm proud to be Canadian. Over the years I've thought about moving, but Canada draws me back and I cannot leave it, which is probably why I go in those retreats, because I can go and explore other too, sin and bring my learning home from that to my work as well as to people I know. And I think we're a great nation. We're resourceful, we're innovative, we're carrying and, I think, generous and I try to live that way and I want to continue to do so. When I think, you know, the world's going to heal and the landscape will be different. But here, in where my studios situated, I want to try and, you know, help locally and if not, then nationally, and then eventually hope to be helping our global neighbors right now through communication and sharing this pandemic experience with them in different levels, right and and and eventually safely travel there and bring, you know, our experiences to them and let them teach us as well. Isn't that wonderful? Thank you very much. I really appreciate your time. Oh my pleasure and thank you. Thank you for listening to unapologetically Canadian. Please consider supporting our podcast Fort UN hundred and ninety nine a month. Joint select listeners and get additional episodes every month.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (58)