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Unapologetically Canadian
Unapologetically Canadian

Episode 44 · 11 months ago

Can you write to heal? Penelope Arnold hopes so.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week, I discuss the necessity of celebrating, connecting to the community and staying active. I also speak with Penelope Arnold, whose story "The Imposter" got longlisted for the CBC writers' prize. I was extra excited to speak with Arnold because she works in Orangeville, where I grew up. We talk about anorexia, addiction, writing and missing home. 

My name is trathiarial and I am anapologetically Canadian, and so it is November first, as Irecorde this and this week, I'm going to be talking about how important theimporance of celebration and I'm thinking about that a lot today,because night was the first night ever in my life that I remember actuallythat I did not celebrate Halloween. We just closed the curtains and turned off Tho lights and didn'tparticipate at all, and this is even though we earlier this year, weactually all went to pick up pumpkins. We never did carve them. I've bought a whole bunch of treets togive ut to people. I was going to be participating ECAUSE, I love Halloween and so usuallyI participate, but yesterday I just wastn't into it and rather thanfighting my mood, I just decided no this year, I'm not going to celebrate, and I don't have any great regretsabout that, because I needed to sleep. I was it's perfectly fine and it sort of emphasizes what I gotout of it in previous years, because this is sort of the last hurrah beforewinter hits and it's an opportunity to have a lot of fun with your neighborsand culd to connect to people around you and I'm not as connected to peoplearound me, because I didn't participate. There's a lot of stuff on facebookgoing on. I'm not part of the conversation. So it's sort ofemphasizes the point of what you get when you do participate, which is areally good feeling about living in a community where it's save, to givetreats to a bunch of kids that come to o door and how people actually did somereally innovative things to make that possible during the time of Cobin Ni.Do So. It just sort of reminds me howimportant it is to put regular celebrations in the calendar and keepthem there and to keep them alive, and so I'm definitely going to make mixturea lot more fun for Halloween. Today is also the first first day ofNearomo, so I got up earlier this morning. I already did my more than twothousand words and I' about to go into a brench witheverybody to start off t the Coto, the Senon. This is a really goodopportunity to celebrate writing and to celebrate the desire to get a novelwritten in in much, and I also spent almost all day actuallyquite a lot f time yesterday, updating my website and that's because the Koabhired an inter this week and in discussion with her about how thevisual identity and brand and technological operations of the coupfunction. Of course, I couldn't help think of some of my personal brandissues and some of the things I really wanted to change about my website, andso I just got down to it and finished it yesterday and of course it's alwaysa working progress, so there's still things to be done, but the new look isthere and it's operational and I transferred from my host and everythingis tickeny Bo. So that's a really goodthing to start off to get ready for thiswinter. With you know, it's a lot easier to thinkabout the content and all of the how I can actually keep my communityactive when some of the basic structures are in place like a website, and you know thrive, temes, iem Ittoremember so it's really easy to keep updoing things on a regular basis andthey just creat, came up with a shape, shifter theeing, which means you coulddo anything you want on any page, which means that I can bring some of my websites into the same website again, which willsave me money next year, so that will be the next step, but it first I had toget the look of my personal brand and the blog and everything the way Iwanted it. So if you don't like it, don't tell mebecause I love it and I'm very happy with it exactly what I wanted to do andnow I just need to focus on getting the content of Ho stuff, and that's so that you know that's I in terms ofcelebrations, and my none of that has anything to do.However, with the episode that I'm going to be publishing this week, whichis a conversation with Penilope, Arnold have not met penelope because, but sheworks in Orange Bell, which is where I grew up, and but the reason that I'mcontacting her is because she got so shirt listed for the CBC Riders QuitePrize for Her story, the impostor so hi penelope. How are you doing Imyothanks? How are you I'm fine? So can you tell me a little bit about thebecause I mea you're, not you're, not known as a writer in Canada,your you work at as a firmaces, yes yeah? Well, I actually had I did anEnglish degree at Queens. I guess I...

...gradua none thousand nine hundred andninety three Andand had thought about being a journalist, but my parents arevery into science and- and you know I was- I was kind of a good girl. I wasalways like okay I'll do whatever my parents want me to do so. I was I kind of thought. Oh I'll dosomething maybe medicin or pharmacy or even they were. You know it was just. Irealized when I was younger. I wasn't very confident about stuff, so I endedup doing pharmacy started, study, pharmacy and but I always loved reading and writing Ahso. I I always thought they would be solovely to be a writer, because I'm quite reclusive- and I love like being on myown and reading and writing. So I had I hadn't- really written anythinglike this before, but because my daughter had gone through a period ofillness that was quite difficult. I one day just rote sat down and wrote aboutit and I was surprived that it w tdid well inte question, but I was pleased right because I thought that it is a subject that I think a lot ofpeople don't know much about. So it's a good thing to kind of talk about yeahwell and your daughter didn't know that you were going to publish it beforeAifi Ono, so I had. I think it was one like it was very close in the deadline,and I had I had done this creative writing class and at Christmas on thelast creative riting class, the teacher said: Oh I've got these calendars arecalled contest calendars and they cost- I don't know twentydollar and everymonth, thereas in a contest. So if you want to improve your writing, youshould enter a contest. So I thought okay I'll try to enter contest everymonth and so of course, I'd missed January. So I thought OHL. The Februaryis the CPC don fiction prize. That sounds pretty good, so I managed to getit in by the deadline and forgot all about it like forgot allabout it because of the poronavirus, basically so yeah. So it was a hot JulyDay when I got into my car after a strenuous workshift and got this emailsaying: congratulations, you've mad the lawglest, and I thought what are theytalking about like I just completely forgotten about it right because covidis, has been so devastating right for in pharmacy, it's been very, verystressful, so and and also yeah. This is beentusteverybody who's been in, I ren farmers market, and so I'm also we'vebeen operating every week. It's not quite as stressful as indoor locations, because we'reoutdoors, we start we're going to be indoors this week and it's a red zone.So it's like it's much more stressful this week than it has been all summer,but it is pressful when you're trying to make sure that you keep people safeand that you know he rightwat you're doing is important and yeah it's and it's just keps to work yeah. It is and- and I think too peoplewere panicking and because, like I work at ShoppersDrunk Mark People, love comming, ty shopper, Druk Maren't, I heard one ladygo. I come here every day, just to look at the deals and pick up my medicineand get my milk, and so shoppers was a one place that was open throughout. Sowe were seeing everyone every day and, of course, people's fears. Youknow they're they're getting upset in chopper drug mart about about thecoronavars, so it was a lot of. There were a lot ofemotions. Foryou know within the staff wis thecustomers, and so it was, and then I actually got coronavirus and the storehad to shut down. Also that created a K, huge problems. Well, I think I probably got it at work, fobbut, whoknows Yeaso. That was, and it was before the time of masks-and you know a lot of restrictions had been put in place. It was you know,early April, so then it was interesting, because when Ireturned to work, some people didn't want to come near me. You know, eventhough I had recovered so it's a the pandemic is a scary thing for people.It is it's very scary, O well interesting and your story. Theimpossor is actually about a scary disease as well I mean, can you talk alittle bit about Itii mean the beginning where your daughter comeshome from Vancouver and is very clearly not her usual fellow yes, she's, nother like she had transformed, and you know we. We thought she was justinto fitness, which, if you have teenagers, it's a good thing to be intofitness right. So I was like she is the one I don't have to worry about. She she was, you know good marks andfit and did everything as she should...

...and then she gets off a plane and Ididn't even recognize her and the problem with this illness. The hardestthing is that they become someone else, which is why I use that kind of theme.Yeah, the imposor someone you don't even recognize. Yes, like literallyphysically, you don't reconize the men, also mentally, like her. Her humor hadgone her her affection. She was just this. Youknow I am exercising. I am running the thirty Colomrs a day and not eatingproperly right. So then Wawa what the disease called, because it's m also well it's Antorexyin Orosa, butwhich, which you know- and I said in the essay really that people useanerect, like the word anerexic as an adjective to describe models or todescribe thin girls and and there's an elementof of it being voluntary. You know, like people, Think, oh well, she wantsto be skinny, so she's skinny yeah, you know with Thos the IAGE, but theyactually see different images in the in the mirror and everything yes yeah, so they and- and it's thislike a psychiatristi use, the word ego syntonic. They they see something else.They see beauty and in her case she was seeing muscle because she lost all herfat so to her that translated into a very fit and healthy persen, Worin and-and you can't change the mindset- that's what that's why I wrote it,because it's like it's coming up against a brick wall of they are so stubborn about it. Or youknow I shouldn't say they AP. She was very stubborn, but I know that the partthe problem with traing is illness is that the patient doesn't see what theproblem is right. So what did you do? And so it was so well hoselingshe'shealthy now, but sshe did go through a stage where the you know the physicianshe was seeing in Mrs Sauga said. Well, she might have to be hosstilelizedbecause she ou er heart rite. Thei heart rate, it is compromise, the heart iscomperant all the organs and you're talking about a person who used to befully healthy six months ago is now. You know that kidney faile is in kidneyfailure and you just can't really comprehend it yeah n and it's very it'svery devastating, because the one person who can do could helpherself she yo Kn. She just won't because she is someone else. It's likeshe's someone else. So you know, and you C N and I think parents do they getangry they're angry at their child like just eat like just stop this and andyou' it. There's no point being like thatright. You can't it'sand and accounts said to me: You have to separate theillness from the child until you can do that, you're going tostill be angry, you're going to be angry and upset, and so we called her like we had another namefor her. She said she called. We called her Luciale. I don't know how he gotthat name, but she was Luciale when she was a different person wel and so because they say it helps them to seeto separate the illness from themselves, and it did help her that that did helpokay, but it is a really difficult thing to watch your child just sink down, and you can't really do alot when you captured that motion so well in your story too, I mean that waswhat was so captivating about reading. It is that you really felt that that all of the emotions like the factis began with your shock and then it went through with your actuallyunderstanding it and then trying to help- and I mean it was a verywillbritten story. Ngratulations noh thanks t e thanks very much thnk, andso how does it feel to get recognition for this personal story? You know Imean you had to tell Heroi C everybodyisfor Matt reading about Yo Ow. I know Wel, I thought a when I realizedit had been short o long listed. I you know. I message my daughter and said:I'm really sorry that I've written this story and now other people are going toread it, and I actually have never really told you that I wrote it and shewas. She thought it was kind of funny she'Stlike Oh, my Gosh, but she knows you know I get quite emotional about thechildren so she's like. Oh, it was probably good for you to write it likeshe's, rery, understanding and and now she's, so good about talking about herillness that she because she says it if it helps other people like will be agood thing right right right. Exactly so, I'd like to think it could helpother people yeah, because when I was investigating it, when she had firstbeen diagnosed, I had read a blog from a lady in Australia with a daughter,and it really helped me to know that therewere other people who were as mystified as Iwas about this behavior t yeah swell and then once she's, seeing a...

...medical professional, you don'tactually get access to what they say or anything right. So how di it? No! No and then you wonder like and and thewhole time you're just feeling guilty, I'm like, are they saying it's my fault?Did I do something wrong? You know and- and I was always very careful aboutnever saying much about weight and things to the girl. You know because Ihave another daughter to, and so I thought no, I didn't do that, but youno you as a parent. I think when somethings happen to your child, youyou kind of blame yourself, L at least I do right, O I'm. I I kept saying you know I just kept inthe counseling, because it was always myself and my daughter and a counselorand she'd say: Oh you're, crying thatthat's good. You know, and I said hit's because I feel guilty she goes. Youdon't have to feel guilty. This is not your fault right, but you do feel thatt. It is your fault, I don't know. No. What do I think is I mean I'm a parenttoo and I feel guilty even when they're perfectly fine. So yes, exactly ' This birden of Gilt ent seemto be insociety that it's always the mother's fault to, especially rather than yeahyou matther than just parents chool. You know I mean, can be parents faultmore, but it seems like mgood moneys get brilianed more often than fathers,but depending on the situation of course, but you're right Erighn is yeah. It wasa great story and I was interested in reading also that your you're actually Gong. Looking atwriting other projects that around very serious things, because you were youwere saying- wour next pafesulls around the OPIOQIT CROSIS INA crisis yeah,because I wan like I find that practicing pharmacy. You I meancommunity pharmacy, you see a huge range of illness and situations, but inOrangeville there are quite a few people who haveaddictions to Opiois and we and I think, there's a lot of stigma withaddiction and when I yeah hen I grew up inorangevillthere was OPA were't a thing then, but there was we had the dogs.You know there was a big drug problem and we had dogs in every Friday at thehigh school and there was there was Aa House that sold hahe, all sorts of other things just upthe street andso. It's right. You know this is not a problems with drugs. ORS Not are notnew. I think every Smoeno, I think every community has some sort of thatlike yeah, I think so I think you're right and- and so I just I thought youknow you go up like Sines Street- that's a pretty street with all thesepretty houses and then just a few blocks over you're kind of in thisneighborhood and you're you'r thinking. Oh, would I walk your late at night,but but you know I it's interesting to me that people live side by side and and some peoplehave no idea about the lives of their neighbors and- and it's not reallyaboud that, but it's about someone like a a couple who dose likethey take Methodon to overcome an addiction and they have a child, and Ialways have wondered when people come to dose Methodom at our pharmacy, thatyou see them with their children, and you wonder I wonderd one day what thatchild was thinking as she watched her mother drinking them Athodo like yeah.Is She thinking that this is a medcine? Or is she thinking that this is just anice dream and the child didn't ask anything so ie thought they've told hersomething I just don't. I just sometimes wonder, and so I thought it'dbe interesting to have a book about this child like her prospects for herfuture, you know and what her life would belike. So I started writing a book about it and it's I think I've been tryinglike it's been it's a couple of years old, but it's so the creative writingclass was you go to the class and you give chapter by chapter to yourcolleagues and they critique it, and so there was of course, there's a lot ofcriticis and you have to be able to take the criticism which is good, butsometimes it's discouraging right yeah. I guess it Wulo Etally, when it's thewhen it's a workin progress. I'm surprised that that there would be a lot of criticismwith the work in progress. Like the Simpstom me. It has yes well. Well, Ithink like yeah, some people are very encouraging. Others are very critical,but then you think well. This would be my audience hat. This is quite a a range of ages at round this tablewith different experiences and if...

...they're all saying that this voiceisn't the good you know, but this is this point of view- isn't good. Ishould change my point of view. Then I would follow what they were saying. But,but what was interesting is that one of the ladies there and I didn't- Ihaven't said that I was a pharmacist she said. Well. I just don't believethat that people would go up to the pharmacist and get dosed for MethodoneAndi. She goes. I think you need to do I, but she goes. I think you need to doa bit more recentl, you knowos, I know so I said well. Actually I dothis every day, and so they were absolutely shocked right, and I thoughtthis to me that was so interesting that people aren't aware of it like they arejust not aware that people are being dosed Takn to withdraw fhormopias. Howwould you be aware like unless you happen to be a patient? I mean who else would knowyeah? Who else would know? That's true, like there's a lot of in the news about Nelox one gits andyou know as an antidote to opiate opiaite overdose, and some people takemore of an interest than others, but I guess you wouldn't know and than butthen there's the whole Ocausei didn't know yeah and yes t. So that's why Ithought that's why I thought a book would be a good way of maybe informingpeople. You know like I don't Nell. I don't even know if it's appropriate forme to write about this, but I don't know it's a is nobl, so its t is fictional completely, but butit's taken from experience right so well I mean, what's that wonderful, author, the WHOdoes WHO's a coroner? Oh yeah, Sheb Partoh. Yes, I know what you mean yeahright, yeas, exactly yeah. She can do it. Tuy butthing is what I find interesting isthere's also you know people who are who are professionals who are who takemethodone? Who want to hide it. You don't want to be seen and- and you have to be very careful withthat kind of thing. But so you know it's difficult, it's adifficult subject, because it's a very private thing, but I do think addictionis more common than people realize right, yeah. Oh I'm sure it is. I mean it's. I think. That's one thing about smalltowns versus cities like mine. Is You can ignore all sorts of problems that are rightaround you? I don't know ifyouyeah no you're right, you're Rghi mean oeverybody kdow everybody, but I did have one I had it SI. I mean I had fonepatient who's. I said you know you're taking an oxy codone and your are youralways early requesting it. So this is a sign of opiad use disorder and he wasso angry so angry that I said that, and I said I'm not being personal, I'm notI'm just telling you that the first sign is refilling. Your prescription two dayslike two days early, then four days early, I said so you're not taking justfor a day now you're taking six a day SA. So this is the most highlyaddictive medication out there Oxicodo. So then, a couple of days later I got acall from his doctor saying you can talk to the pases like this and I saidwell, this is peticulous. I've done the the Corse Camch like the Center foropiated in Mental Health Right Sento for addiction on mental health. So Ithink more physicians and more pharmacists need to take the scourseright, and so so then, a week later, this patient's wife turned up and saidyou can't talk. You Talk to my husband as though he was a street person. Shesaid, and I said what is the street serson. I said anyone can becomeaddicted to medication. Anyone like medication or op, like you cant, justit's, not it's, not just one portion of society that has this problem, so you know that so that's when Idecided to write this book and they're not in the book or anything like that,but I it just should tells me that people don't believe that it can happento them yeah and it yeah well veryualy. Theycan't I mean they feel like, but I mean, even though, all the warnings and arethere- I mean I guess, if you're you're, taking it for whatever reason: You'renot paying attention to those warnings. Hany were yeah, yeah and you're right.It's like post, surgical, Tan killers right so yeah. They make you feel great,so you want more, but yeah that's rhight, and this is a big problem right yeah.It is a big problem, a D and it's but...

...it'll be interesting to see what youthat, how your novel progresses- and I can understand the feeling of having aI have a book- that's been around that I'm still working on sine one thousandnine hundred and ninety six, so I've written many other books andthings since then. But it's like there's some projects that just taketime to percolate. I think yeah. I think you're right and then-and so I wasn't- I kind of lost confidence in the book and but then butthen Thi CBC contest. It's given me a bit of abooste right is like okay. I think I can do this right, so it's kind of Nice,it's Goo, if you think, because I think to like Ijust turned fifty so I was like oh my gosh- am I going to be doling out pillswhen I'm eighty still yti need to do something else with my life, and Ireally love writingyeah? Well, why notit's? Certainly it's certainly andyou've shown that you can get not only a topic that it attracts people'sinterest, but also you've written in it, a way that it that garnered award. Soyou know that you can do it with a short story. So surely you can do itwith a novel to Oh thanks ter, so it's very encouraging yoquestion, because you are a full timepharmacist. How does writing fit into life like what's your schedule? What doyou do? How do you make it work? Well, so what I do is because I liketethree till ten shift, because I'm not a morning person, I'm pretty bad at themorning. I like to do like lighthousework and possible groceriesin the morning and then I go to work, but then at eleven pm, I'm like fullyawake and you know so that's when I will write from like eleven fil one,maybe o work it with an and then I'll like like eleven P or so I work at at in the pharmacy bieverything. Then okay,yeah, yeah, reallate schedule and then and then I do why writing sort ofelevenhtuntil one or two am because I because no one's around- and I kind ofI seem to have more energy, whereas I owere opposes that yeah. Well, I used to be Lai out when Iarin high school and things, but I mean, since I had kids, that I I still get upat the time that they used to wake me up at theres. Looker await, but that'swhen I wrede, I write iuptil nine see that's so good. I admire people toget up eally. I really do because, obviously having small children almostkilled me because they get up so early and I'm like t matters which way you do it as longas you make time to do it right, yeah, Yeh, you're, right right sobecause, like yeah, it's, and so so that I mean that's, I'm sorry. I wasgoing to ask you what other kinds of things you write like. Are you writing? Are you working on the novel all thetime or do y? U have other projects well. Well. I had a bit of a break because I kind of make things up as Igo and I've tried like I'mpteen times to make an outline A. I can't do it. Ijust can't stick to it, so I just kind of write the novel when I'min the mood like I'll suddenly think. Oh, this would be good. So then I'll goand scribble it down, but but so what I had done is join this online. It's Ithink it's a British website called breenz. I don't fe different, I knowand they do it they all right. Well, they just do a short story. Promptevery week, so some things just catch my imagination and then I'll write ashort story, and I usually I always submit it to them and have never everlike won on anything, and I don't know how reputable it is, but it has itstarks me to kind of do SOM Oinse, which I think is good. I think rere isvery repidal and it has a it actually. You can hire editors and things throughthat site to and so no there's nothing wrong with it I mean and who cares aslong as works for you? Okay, are you going to be Pirt of Kno? I know you'reright. Have you heard of the nationalrehnational novel writing? What is it called Anio national rating hold on? Let me look at my email for it,but basically, every every year in November, there's a there's nonprofit ts, nineOrimo DT Org and they do a a challenge to write fifty thousand words in amonth and they have all sorts of writing croms and all this kind ofstuff too, so that the ideas that you would finish your novel in a month have you ever parteated in no...

...and o WRI Mo, and actually this pt, ourconvertation will be published, probably during Nen Arhimo,because because it's, I think, it's four weeks from now that it's going tobe published. But basically it's not o ime and thenyou and there's and what you are is you're called a Pancer, which meansthat you don't play Okah, and so you cy you can. Actually you have like notyou're. Basically, I'm a planer, I'm a pancer and then or I'm a planter, whichI means that you pla some of it. But then you, you know. So it's really interestinganyway. So Nana Rhimo and if you go to national novel Writing Minth, if youjust plug that into into Google you'll find it. But it'sbasically Nano rhimo dot, Org Anda Mand. They have a ton of different EAND.They have local community writers who get together, and this will be my firstyear doing it as well. So I think it's really exciting. Oh sothat yeah that's exciting. So thanks a lot I will. I will do that. I think,because that I kind of was in a ret, you know that's. The thing is AAG ofthis. Is that there's a whole bunch of other people? There's quite a fewCanadians. I don't I'm in the Montreal sector, so I don't know who's inOntario, but I suspect that there'll be some people in your neighborhood thatyou will be able to find either if not n Orange Buildin somewhere nearby Andyou can join that chapter and thenthere's like a forum to discuss things and they've already been sending outpromps because I haven't decided whatwhat, I'm going to work on for themonth, but so every second day I get the thing saying: Have you decided whatyou're working on Fornana Rhimo, yet ou get ready? And so it's like it's veryeveryday. In your emails sut. You get this feeling like it's basically, on the first of October,it was like count down Deneno Rimo, hi writers. You know it's, so it's reallyquite exciting. You really feelri'll. Look that up yeah, that's so good, because you cu, Imean the Mon, the rigt ARD, that is very, very ifocalled. I've been awriter S in Ne Thousand Nine hundred and inety thre, full time, wrihter Sein,thusand, nine hundred and ninety three and it changes every single year and itis always the hardest thing and never really improved. I mean you ere likebut. You always needhelp. At least I yeah. I know it's true it's truebecause I'm like where am I going with this like what you know and then andthen with the criticism group I was like. Oh my God, I got everyone hatesthis, but then, when I so you have to send in a hard,oh Kno, you send it to the people a week before and then you all meet andthey printed it off with all their comments. So when I looked back at them,they were actually more encouraging than I had realized at the time. So it's funny criticism is funny, but itcan put you off right. O can really put you off yeah, I'm part of a genealogy writers groupand we meet once a month and everybody gives the Monday before the meeting islike the fourth Wednesday of of the month and every the Sunday before weextend our stories to each other, and then people comment on them and the Sto,the meaning, is basically taken up with comments, but I find it. Thisparticular group is so positive, everybody's, so positive that it turnsout to be Justa, and now we also have lots of comments and mean we have toalmost always reado our stories. After all, the comments sowe get rar somecriticism, but it's it's such rewarding criticism, becauseeveryone loves the story so much you know. Oh that's! So, Nice, that's verynice, very supportive right, a yeah. So you may want to encourageyour your critics, your criticism group that you know maybe you they should.You could add a section to say: okay, everything you like about the story.First, Oh yeah, good idea, yeah, I think so, and I could see like ifsomeone noin you must, you must say something must ethings versus you know.If you have a curicism, you have to find two positive things to say forevery criticism or something to take the to turn the around yeah you'reright, like the my daughter, say its Tis criticism sandwich like good thanbad in the middle and the good again yeah, because just that you focus on some ofthe positive things too, because everybody has a talent and then what'sinteresting is if you're, focusing on tha on the positive things you find out.Who has the talent in the group? And so then you know if you have somethingyou're struggling with. Who is good at that? You know like we have one personwho's, particularly good at description and another person, who's really good.At dialogue and an Y we have a poet in the group and one is fun. We have a there's two people who are particularlyfunny Al Right, so you want to...

...for, if you're trying to writesomething from. I know, and I love humorous books right, yeah, Lighwell and Thi thing it's hard to be writer sometime. It isreally hard. It is really hard so, but tracy is very encouraging thanks somuch this is great. Okay, I'M G O you're Welcomei'm so, like I said, I'mso excited and hoping that your project will be done soon, because I think it'sreally really important. The opiod crisis is something that everybody needhelp with for sure. Okay Teran, it's interesting because it gets a lot ofattention. I this states, but it doesn't get so much attention in Canadaright yeah, you Rightli how it is as strong. I this is the problem asdifficult here as it is in the states or is because we have healthcare orpeople caught and helped earlier or yeah like, I think no, I think peopleare helped like when I see the support that people who, like there's a couplewho have now four children, they're very young and the one of them has just been put intoRehab, which is great and she's. So the husband is looking after the kids withhis mother and I'm looking at them going. How are they coping? You know,but they just they seem very positive and they're getting a lot of help fromyou know everyone, and I thought, that's really a good thing, though it'staken quite a long time, forit to happen, but I you know, I don't know like it's difficult. I was speaking to oneof the doctors t at a orange like headwaters healthcare like the hospitaland she said Wel we haven't had a lot of training on SACTO Boxom, which is anew way to treat withdrawal, and so I was going through the ruleswith her from the camgh template and she's. Like well thanks vretty much andwe're also having someone coming in to show us, but so I thought that's goodright, but there needs. I think there needs to be more communication reallybetween physicians and pharmacists and nursepactitioners, and so that could beanother avenue even on the local site. I was thinking you know just moreeducation right, because the camh course like shoppers made SOM me to doit and it was expensive. I think it was like twelve hundred dollar for me theypaid for me to go, and I was like there are a lot of practitioners who wouldbulk at saying that you know to spend two days in Toronto and it's you knowlike they would really like. People have other expenses and other things todo right. So, even if the it will so, I was just going to say: If there'sis there a public information somewhere, because we can link to that in the shownos to Oh right, yeah, like I, I'm not sure like it? Well, it's likeit's Camach. They do a professional course every year. I think it's in. I think it was okay.Yeah so it'SCM Camh and they always have a physician talking to otherhealth professionals about opioit. You know methods of rehabilitation, and I know it's so good.The Cemi camage has a website. They have a opodedition, page okay, so I can link to the okay good, that's good, because Ithink because it was Tucha like a perfect page that says ohe yeah like it's cause, it talks about sorry yeah, Noso, Goo it like it. Justit's it's very helpful. It was like so helpful for me, like so helpful,because you get a lot of situations where the dotorwill forny saying wellhe's in withdrawal. What you know. What do should I give and I'm like? Well, sothere's a distinct protocol to help people if they've decided to stop usingheroine, for instance, and how much they need to start on method, oners,sof, Okso, and so they go through very specific case studies and another.Another problem, too, is over the counter, tylenal ones which containeight milligrams of coding, people abuse them hugely and theyare available in the phamacesand pharmacists give them out like candy and- and that was another thing,so I've changed my practice since then and where I don't give Pana once I gaveout thirty and after I've talked to the patient for quite a while, but you know th they're available as packas two hundred bottles, two pack of two hundred bottles, and so that's sixteenhundred milgrams of coding right there, which is a lot of coding and that's just available for the powerno prescription needed. So things like that need to be addressed. Yeah Yeah people come up from the states and getyeah they get Powel with coding, because in the states they won't sellit over the Cammer and so...

...now. The other thing that age actuallysays is that you can get a free net nelex one cit, no yeah me look so sonoloxsone is so. If you yeah, if you overdose it's an antagonist to anyopoits, so it can save their life because, basically, if you take, if youtake an overdose Os, an opiit, your breathing stops is a respiratorydepressant. So you die because you're you can't, you don't breathe, so itantagonizes that procedure. So you actually it's very very it's a lifesaving easily accessible medication, but so they can come in. Anyone cancome in and get it free. The government will pay for it, and so we get a lot of people o thiswith this page Thaa. So because it says that basically, if, if you know orsomeone you know uses OIPO, it's good to have one on exactly exactly so.That's good to oi mean it's go it. You know, because somebody who knowssomebody can just get a one of these kids and at least they can save the lexacy some sort of overdoe and yeah and they've made it now on nasal spray. Soyou just instead of using a needle, which you might be uncomfortable withdoing you just stick it up the nose and deploy the spray and there it's veryclever. It's good Wowyeh! That's Fuyeah! No! I, like Isaid if I hadn't been into eoor anything at all about that IV, never heard of ig other than thenews stories on the Internet that you know sort of flyd by facebook, everynow yeah. Well, that's good! So so, but yeah. So you know that this is anapologetically Canadian. So my last question is you? So do you consideryourself, Canadian? And what does that mean to you? Well, yes, I do because I,like my parents, moved over for because my father's South African and he's actually non weigt and was sort of a really had a pretty nasty time in CapeDown in one th s right, so it went to England and because he wasn't, peoplealways wanted to be an engineer and wanted wasn't allowed to be an engineer as he wasn't white. So hewent to England, because mother received up and SAF that to send himand he ended up studying medicine he worked and his pretty smart guy, a wentto University of Liverpool met my mom, who was also study, Mensin and then inthe S. I guess the Canadian government was advertising for British doctors togo because they needed doctors here, so they moved or oe thousand nine hundredand sixty seven, I think, to Hamilton and then we're put out in Walkirgtonwhere they were the only doctors in a large area and but then eventually moved to Waterloo.So they've been in practice in Waterloo for like forty years, but so yes, we all consider Owell my mom just topped and actuallywhat stopped her was covid. She got covid in the middle of her practice, soyeah I know so we had to. We had to shut it all down. It was pretty bad but yeah. So we all enjoy Canada very much and it's been a great place for her dadbecause he was able to sponsor all his brothers and sisters because he was oneof nine out from South Africa and so considers Canada, a great country whereyou know equal rights everyone's seen for who they are not the color of theirskin. So I you know it'. It was a good move on his park. You know, Oh that's, fun, yeah, yeah,wow, and so you were born in in Britain. I was wony Fitin because mom like theycame over to Hamilton and it's funny because my husband's from Hamilton butias like Oh, it was just like. I was so homesick for England, because she'sfrom like Herefford, where the Harford cows are fom, like it's all farmland,it's beautiful right, so she would work for a bit and go over to visit. Her momhave a baby get pregnant in Canada, go and have a baby in English like she was she fen on his heart. Shefeut it hard like she's, quite homesick, but now she's, fine right, but it thefirst few years were hard right because they didn't know anyone they were. You know. I think it was difficult, but now youknow obviously with time everything changes, but they had seven children.So where did you grow up? So we grew up. Where did you grow yeah? So I was bornin Herrford and England. Then they bought a house in waterloop becausetheywere bit like mom's like a Walkirton, it was just like whis, wy mom, quite likes a busier city. Sowhen and waterloothen was not busy, but they so they established a practice inWaterloo and bought a house and they're still in that house, yeahan in Wata Lo yeah.

So and so I grew up with farmland, youknow and and they sent us to school in Toronto and people and Tryig to be like.Where do you live again? Wa? Where is Waterle Lik? I was like the Hick and now, of course it's famous for theuniversity, and but it's like they thought I was a real hicter. So ats quite funny. This was the unniversyterm in like now. This is at which Sclell, because they sent us to theTron of French school because they wanted us to learn French, because yetthis they were like we like to put to France and eat lovely food and have thewine. But we can't speak French. So on one year my dad took over his bigFord Band with his seven kids and we spent the slimmer just driving throughFrance, with all of us, like underten going is like likelike asking askingson like. Can you get out and ask them how I put pub this Gas Likcan? You askUS where ye so whereto stayng for the night and no. I wanted to have like twotwo adults and seven children like soyeah. That's a that's! That's ot veryhur like they would have to have to hotel right now, sort of with a door. Iknow that would be very differult and now that I've had three CISA, I'm likemy parents are crazy and seven children, unperten yeah, like ut yeah, so sevenand ten years, and they were all like ohwelllet' just take the car overbecause we won't be able to fit like the European cars will never fit us alland and dad on that trip got so many offers from people. People come up andgo like say to us in French. We ask your father how much he would sell thisvan for it's like. I can't Sel this fan. We a Ned this SAM, so yeah. My parents are veryinteresting right. Everyone I know is like you have towrite abot about your parents right, like theyr. Their first take like theirfirst date in the Rupol, my mom's, like. Oh, we were at this ice rink and thissmall band was playing and it turned it. They turned out to be quite famous. Iwas like what band was that she's? Like the beetles? I like your first date,was on an ice rink with beetles like unknown vetls right yeah. Oh my godthat's UNFBYEAH, and so do you have? Do you haveCanadian citizenship? Yes yeas? So we all have to Nak the WO Youyeah. Sowe're doal citizens, because we, I guess, that's how it happened andyeah. So we n we have fritish passports and Canadian passports. So it's beenreally we've been very lucky. Like we're very lucky tat, my parents wereable to vive yeah like finance us to like travel and even at was a bit Harry at times theywere all about. You know: education, travel and opening your eyes andacceptance of of people which is great right, yeah, so, and so what about youryoure? Also your children are also duses yeah. so so I sted phantasy inEngland and because I love it there right. So I was like and my grandmalived there and she wasn't doing so. Well so I thought well, I could studyat going keep an eye on her and then I so I had gone to Queens andmet my my ten boyfriend at Queens and he came over with me and got a job atBerkley's bank, and so we lived there for twelve years and then came back so I've kind of spent. I really swentmost of my life in Canada and then had a twelve year gap in England. Then Icame back, but so so my eldest startad something aMadalin actually is studying in England right now, because I think that it's good to travel andExperience Different Cultures Right O that I've always taught them that thatif he can do it, it's a good thing. So she shiand- and I think part of herstruggle to that's why I felt guilty. I guess because she was far away fromhome and you know a little bit homesick and struggling with eating and exercise,and so I was like. Oh, she was too young to go away, and so that was partof it, but now she's so happy and is fine. So but whereas my son he's a homeboy andhe ad he's at Welf, which is only twenty minutes from here, QwelthUniversity and he loves being home and doesn't really looke traveling. So it's a funny right, yeah children ware ar their own people,you plancar. So how would you describe your feeling about Canada? Do youconsider yourself a Canadyes? I do very much considers yeah like I do, loveEngland, but the last time I was there. I was really homesick for Canada andand when I lived there I was so...

...homesick in the winter just for thesnow and- and you know thanks kivsing like this time of year, I love with thetrees turning and just and how everyone is so like you know,you feel really proud to be Canadian, like in the Olympics, Ou, it's so nicewhen they do well. You know I mean like it's just you feel and and then thereputation abroad like if you go to Canada, like Oh pninies, are so niceJus, so nice- and you know I always had to say I not American, I'm notAmericanwhich is terri sounds terrible t. You know people's attitudes dochange right when they hear it your Canadians, so it's funny but Yeaheah. So I'mreally happy Lin here, I'm really lucky where I live right, it's a nice areaand and I'm lucky in my job. You know thatI'm needed and I have a job. So it's Miand Y and it's been busy yeahwell. Thank you very much. I really appreciate your conversation today.It's really interesting to hear, becauseyour experience is a so wide ranging and thank you. Remindin thanks, F lotchasing very much. Thank you for listening toanapologetically Canadian. Please consider supporting our podcast for OTue a nety nine a month join, select listeners and get additional episodesevery month.

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